Today, we're going to be talking about the changes to skills. When referencing the build cost, I will be using the format from the rulebook, which is Fighter/Rogue/Scholar/Templar.
New Skill:
Barbarian Slay (10 Build) - Can be purchased once for barbarians. Only works as a slay, doesn't work as a parry.
Stop Thrust - The first purchase of this skill is 0 build, and you can purchase an additional stop thrust for 2 build for every 2 proficiencies you have.
One Handed Block - Is now a skill that costs 0 build. Acts the same way as the playtest, but somewhat awkward implementation.
Skill Changes:
Hobling Dodge - Raised to 12 Build
Detect Celestial Magic - No longer packet delivered, after 1 minute of roleplay it acts as a detect magic that only applies to celestial effects.
Alchemy - In order to use contact poison/gasses, you must have sufficient levels of alchemy to make the item you wish to use.
Dex Armor - Can now be purchased up to 10 times (for 20 points of armor)
Wear Extra Armor - Build cost raised to 3/3/4/3
Weapon Proficiency - Removed the scaling build structure and profs now cost 15/20/30/18
Critical Slay/Parry - Slays now do a flat 100 points of damage. Build cost changed to 10/15/20/13
Master Proficiency - Removed the scaling build structure and master profs now cost 17/24/34/22.
Master Slay/Parry - Slays now do a flat 100 points of damage. Build cost changed to 13/18/25/15.
Assassinate/Dodge - Assassinates now do a flat 100 points of damage.
Waylay - Is now a daily skill, lasts 5 minutes and has the same requirements as assassinate (standing behind, see both shoulderblades). Requires a short weapon (or small weapon). Can be parried/dodged/resisted as a physical attack. Build cost is 6/3/6/6, and you may only purchase additional uses once for every 5 levels your character attains.
Herbal Lore - Now detects and identifies a substance in food or drink in 3 seconds, and can be used to destroy said substance in 1 minute of roleplay (so that the food/drink is safe).
Smithing - Changed the number of levels required for silvering a weapon, removed flawless refit, now costs 3/4/4/4.
Formal Magic - Now costs 12/8/4/6 for primary school and 24/16/8/10 for secondary school.
Any changes I missed? Drop it in the comments.
Someday I want to meet the fighter that has a level of secondary formal. Then I want to hit them with a shovel and steal their build.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, i think we also added in stuff like one handed block and stop thrust.
Wow, never did the math on that before, but it requires at least 487 build to get there as a fighter, and that's just prereqs, 1 level of level 1 primary, and an obelisk to 9 in secondary. Ridiculous.
ReplyDeleteAdded Stop Thrust and One Handed Block to new skills.
I really like the changes in cost to things. It makes more distinct classes.
ReplyDeleteI play a templar and they seemed really OP, being able to get formal, alchemy to chuck gases, have spells, prof and slays. I'm happy to see them get back to what they are supposed to be melee with some spells. Flat costs of 18 for profs will aide this.
The only thing that seemed weird to me at first was scholars getting a barbarian slay. I suppose they are a sturdier ppl and this is represented in double costs for scholary skills and such. Made sense after I reasoned it out a bit.
When I think of the barbarian slay, I think back to the first book in the Lankhmar series when it gives the origin of Fahfrd.
ReplyDeleteI assure you that every single person in that village would be able to cleave you in half at least once a day - even the women.
"I'm happy to see them get back to what they are supposed to be melee with some spells. "
ReplyDeleteHeh, this comes up here and there but is actually incorrect. Templars are not supposed to be melee with some spells. They are, according to the founders of NERO, meant to be scholars with a little bit of melee. So yes, this change massively alters their balance and makes them way way more fighty, but that's not part of their original intent but is rather a specific change to class balance.
How much original intent matters is clearly a debate rational people can have, but that the original intent for templars to be casters with some weapon skills isn't.
Hopefully that didn't come off as too strident or in your face, it wasn't meant to. :)
I am a fan of the new templar...definitely for those of us over level 35.
ReplyDeleteWell sure, it's a massive boon to the high level templar. Of course, according to Joe and Adam, the reason to implement it was to help low level templars, specifically templars at sub-level 10...
ReplyDeleteI would say 49 build for +2 and a slay is an improvement for low level templars.
ReplyDeleteNot at all Mickey :). I come to this blog because I get a behind the scenes look at how things function and good discussion. Your insights are greatly appreciated.
ReplyDeleteI'll admit I didn't take into account the slay math, but I find it a little unfortunate that the true main beneficiaries of this change are the high level templars.
ReplyDeleteAnyway, since the templar change indirectly touched off the issues that led to the resignation (it's obviously a lot more complicated than that) I may be a bit tense when it comes to them. :)
Templars are OP. They can make people resign.
ReplyDeleteFrom 10-20 there is no better build than the coin op templar...
ReplyDeleteHere's what I think, take it or leave it.
ReplyDeleteWaylay - I really think this change is bad, BUT I'm going to give it a try before complaining--too much :) I just really don't like the restriction on buying it. It's now the only skill that requires a set level. I thought we were trying to make things consistent?
Stop thrust - I don't like that you have to spend build on it now. Two handers have a hard enough time why make it harder? Also don't like yet another restriction that is unique.
Barbs - I think resist fear or element for barbs would have been better than a slay. However, I really don't have any negatives to say about it. (I really don't like 100 point slays though). Detect Celestial Magic gets nerfed? Was it really too powerful to be thrown?
I really happy for the Templars they got some good fixes.
I'm confused about why one-hand block is a 0 cost skill.
Alchemy I just wish they would have made it simple and made the required level to throw gases 10 levels of alchemy. I won't know what level a gas is that I don't use, so I won't know if I can throw it.
I agree with you on Stop Thrust. I think it's really the only change in the new rules I don't like.
ReplyDeleteWhen it was free, it still wasn't enough incentive to avoid sword/board. I would have either charged 2 build for it and didn't limit the number of purchases, or kept it the way it was in the playtest.
I agree that Stop Thrust is now a broken skill - it had limited use as it was, let alone now that you have to spend build on it.
ReplyDeleteI am very luke warm on the Waylay fix...in 18 years of "play-testing" (LOL) I never saw a single significant issue with it. I do not however think this will cause any issues whatsoever, and think it will likewise play great.
Templars should be removed from the game. In their place we should allow cross-over specialization of skills for each class to be able to purchase a portion of another class's skill set at a reduced cost upon reaching a certain level or meeting certain requirements. Three classes creates a great symmetry of the main skill focuses of Magic&enchanting/Combat&smithing/Stealth&alchemy and eliminates the ever-present need we have had to try and "fix" the Templar class. I have not done an in-depth, mathematical anlysis of the Templar, but my initial reaction was "wow, that's over-powered..."
I am not sure if this should be added here or in gameplay.
ReplyDeleteWaylay can now be blocked by a parry or a dodge. It also requires the use of only a short or small weapon for which you have the skill.
I added it under the waylay skill.
ReplyDelete